What to do?

[JonCStrauss]

Howdy,

Based on some comments I heard about the recent instructors intensive here in Colorado, I was curious as to what you regular seminar attendees do when someone who is not the instructor (or the host) attempts to teach or correct during training?  It's one thing if it's a guest 6th dan walking around making suggestions.  I'm talking about the folks in the 2nd kyu to nidan range who like to stop moving and start talking.
What are some responses that work well (i.e.: they are "Aikidoish" in that they don't cause trouble and they let the offender know their extensive advice/criticism is out of place at such a function)?
Any input is welcome.

Peace,
JCS
RMKS at CSU

[Adam]

What are some responses that work well (i.e.: they are "Aikidoish" in that they don't cause trouble...

I'm talking about the folks in the 2nd kyu to nidan range...

Oh sure, go ahead and make it hard...

First of all... one of these days (years?), I'm going to have to make it to an instructor's intensive.

Hmmm... well, if a seminar attendee is trying to actually correct or teach me, they may have a valid point :-/. So, I'll usually keep quite and do the best ukemi I can. Just doing that will usually shut 'em up (or find out that I needed the instruction). However, if they keep correcting, I'll ask if they mind I try what they were doing (to stop/interfere/correct) and have them show me the *correct* way. After stopping their technique, I'll usually say something like, "of course if we keep training this way, we won't learn anything. And the more we keep stopping, the less chance the person leading this seminar has to actually see what we're doing... and therefore be able to catch any mistakes." But probably not so eloquently. I've only had to resort to this just a couple of times, that I can remember. Usually, I try to keep the pace up enough (not necessarily fast, just constant) so that there's not a lot of time to talk.

I can see a lot of branches to this question.

thanks,
Adam

[J. Nachtrab]

Coming from the other side, it's often just as difficult to decide when it is and is not your place to offer advice or criticism.  I tend to just keep my mouth shut unless I'm working with people with far less experience, and even then I try to be brief and laconic.

I've been in your situation a few times though, and my response tends to depend on whether I agree with the opinion being offered.  As long as it's not overbearing I'll more often than not give it consideration and try it a couple times.  If I totally disagree I'll respond with my own approach, maybe give their idea a try and try to keep the conversation brief.  Thankfully I've never encountered anyone who was so insistent or relentless as to be a problem.

[kironin]

Coming from the other side, it's often just as difficult to decide when it is and is not your place to offer advice or criticism.  I tend to just keep my mouth shut unless I'm working with people with far less experience, and even then I try to be brief and laconic.

Actuallly, IMO, I don't think it is all that difficult.  Just practice and if your partner actually ask for your help or advice, then help them if you can.  If you can't help them, then get the Sensei's attention and ask for help.

Now if someone offers me advice, then I will listen.  Probably I will say, "yes, thank you." if it was relevant or a good point.   If it wasn't a relevant point, then I might say, "yes, good point, however,  I was working on doing what sensei was teaching. My understanding was that he wanted us to do this..."
If the advice is particularly not relevant and they insist on it, then I get sensei's attention and let him/her look at what we are doing.

advice I always welcome.
Criticism is always out of place.

If I am with someone who is struggling, then I find usually a good lead with my ukemi and a push or encouragment is much better than stopping and talking.  

I find it even now that my 2nd and 1st kyu students will tend to stop and talk a lot at newer students struggling with techniques.  So I have been making a practice of when this gets to be a problem of interceding, and take ukemi for the new student to coax them through the technique with almost no word said as an example.  

Craig

[Pimado]

Being in the 2nd kyu to nidan range, I find I speak less and less as I work through the range.  Two reasons-1. I'll probably corrected by some 6th dan type & 2. I won't really explain it well enough to get my partner to do what I think is correct anyway.  Actually sometimes the lessons we learn when we go to seminars or regular classes aren't always the ones we went there for.  Try to assess the harm if any, and move on.