differences? Ki aikido and aikikai aikido

[newbie26]

hello there everyone im a newbie and would realy appreciate some information on aikido.

The thing is i was recently thinking about taking up aikido and have found that there is only one dojo in my area that teaches ki aikido.

ive been looking at websites and reading up on the founder and the different forms that have developed over the years. i recently rang up the ki aikido dojo and and he was very informative.
But the thing i want to ask is
Is there a great difference between aikikai and ki aikido and if so what?

ive read that there is a few more striking moves in aikikai, is it true that there is absolutely none in ki aikido?

im not so concerned about smashin and attacker but does ki allow a lunge kick or snap punch? does it allow the defensive moves to be turned into a strike?

ive tried to find a website that lists the moves of ki aikido but cant find any. ive found the moves of aikikai listed on the aikiweb.com website, should i just forget about the strikes and take the rest to be the moves you would find in ki aikido?

does anyone now where i can find a list of moves or techniques that deals just with ki aikido.

Aikido is something id like to up, i believe it can be used in a practical way despite all the arguments ive read in other forums.

any information that anyone could give would be greatly appreciated.

[J. Nachtrab]

That's a tough question.  Not only are the differences between Aikikai's and Ki Society's approaches somewhat subtle to aikidoka, there are probably variations within each school from dojo to dojo.

But the thing i want to ask is is there a great difference between aikikai and ki aikido and if so what?

Ki Society focuses more on ki development, its place within aikido and its application in daily life.  As I understand it, Tohei Koichi places an emphasis on aikido training for daily living, not just for martial purposes.  Is there a great difference between the two?  Probably not.  It's all aikido.  There are some differences in techniques and teachings, but the core is the same.

I've read that there is a few more striking moves in aikikai, is it true that there is absolutely none in ki aikido?

I'm not so concerned about smashin and attacker but does ki allow a lunge kick or snap punch? does it allow the defensive moves to be turned into a strike?

Does it allow strikes?  Sure.  Strikes could be inserted into techniques fairly easily.  Ki Society does not teach striking as a part of its formal curriculum, however, as it's somewhat contrary to the central idea of aikido technique, which is to blend with and neutralize an attack without harming your attacker.  Any strikes (or atemi) are meant as a distraction and a way to disrupt an attacker' smind and intentions, not as a means of physical counterattack.  

Even Aikikai, I would wager, utilizes atemi as a means of distracting or disrupting an opponent's attack rather than as an objective in itself.  Ueshiba Morihei once described aikido as being "90% atemi", but I don't think he meant it was 90% striking.

does anyone now where i can find a list of moves or techniques that deals just with ki aikido.

Somewhere on the Ki & Aikido page here in the forums there is a thread that links to a website with some video of Ki Society technique.  Take a look at that to get an idea of what Ki Society teaches.

Hopefully others more experienced than I can offer more opinions to you.  My advice is always to visit a dojo and observe or participate for yourself.  Many dojos will allow you to sit in on a class or offer trial periods of a few weeks.  That's really the best way to answer your questions.

[RickB]

ive read that there is a few more striking moves in aikikai, is it true that there is absolutely none in ki aikido? Im not so concerned about smashin and attacker but does ki allow a lunge kick or snap punch? does it allow the defensive moves to be turned into a strike?

Ki-aikido does instruct on how to defend against striking moves, including -- shomenuchi (overhead strike down the center of the head), yokomenuchi (downward diagonal strike from side of neck to opposite hip), munetsuki (punch or stab to midsection), as well as a wide variety of grabs and holds.  Ki-aikido also instructs on how to defend against various kicks.  As far as

turning a defensive move into a strike

, this ordinarily focuses on atemi:  punching or striking techniques used by nage (the defender) usually in the form of feints to change uke's (the attacker's) ki.  
  I think the main thrust of ki-aikido is that the martial art is used as a means or a vehicle to teach mind and body unification.  If you can keep mind and body unified when attacked, this will probably help you maintain it in less stressful or emergent circumstances.  But the purpose of our study is to unify mind and body in daily life.  Done correctly, all aikido, indeed all martial arts, probably require mind & body unification.  However, this is the overt and declared purpose of ki-aikido.  It is not something that is considered a by-product, as in many other aikido and other martial arts styles.
   It is my understanding that many other teaching styles in aikido suggest that learning "ki development" is something that only really occurs after becoming relatively advanced in technique.  To the contrary, in ki-aikido, it is not only the primary purpose of the study, which can be learned from the get-go; it can also be studied (using both mind and body) without the martial art, with Japanese Yoga -- as originally founded by Tempu Nakamura Sensei and expanded by Koichi Tohei Sensei (the founder of  ki-aikido).

[kironin]

well,
... put it this way.

After training only in an Ki-Aikido dojo diligently for two years, I went to an Aikikai seminar with Morihiro Saito Sensei, 9th dan (Aikikai Iwama style) and had a good time.   I was able to adapt to what they were doing because of the principes I was learning about mind and body unification.

It's been said elsewhere.  Picking the aikido you do by organizations is really a big mistake.  You should be picking what you do based on the teacher and school you will practice at.  Go visit the school.  try out some classes for a while.  If you like the teacher and the training environment and are learning.  Go on and practice!  

You will be well ahead of many people.

best.

[Chris_Gearhart]

I practiced Ki-Akido for about 6 years and have been practicing with an Akikai dojo now for just a couple of months. I don't see a whole lot of difference in the Aikido itself.  The difference I do see in technique probably have as much to do with who the senior instructor is as with which style it is.  Neither style have offensive kicks or strikes. Both styles have Atemi to distract or direct the attacker to move in a particular direction.
The biggest difference I do see is in teaching style.  In the Akikai dojo there is a stonger emphasis on the physical form of the technique with the assumption that if your form is good you will eventually come to understand why it works. In a Ki-Aikido dojo there is  stronger emphasis on why a techniques works with the assumption that if you practice with understanding  you will develop good form.  Eventually the two paths should merge.

I can't say that one is better than the other. In both styles the lower level students are hesitant and akward and the upper level students are graceful and powerful. I think it all comes down to which dojo you will learn in best and that has more to do with the people in the dojo than the organizational affiliation.