Taigi 13.2 why "juji"

[lcrane]

Does anyone know why the nickname for technique 2 in Taigi 13 is "juji" nage? I have seen some techniques called juji where the arms of Uke end up awkwardly crossed before they fall, such as ushiro ryotekubi dori jujinage. The crossed arms look like the kanji for numeral 10, and so "juji" (lit. "ten character") makes sense to me. But in Taigi 13, this crossing aspect seems to be missing.

Did this techique once have a crossed-arm aspect to it? Is the reading of "juji" something different here?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

-Lauren Crane

[Michael Holm]

well I will give a shoot

in our online dic. the kanji for juji can be : ?? ?- "like a cross"
I think it referes to the first movement of nage's arms, when uke hits with his right hand, nage crosses his arms, his left arm lower.

sincerly
Michael

ups, its seems like my pasted Kanji does not appear, please look under "j" here:
http://toitsu.dk/dansk/aikidoterms.html#Anchor-33869

[lcrane]

Michael,

Thats an interesting idea....If I understand your meaning correctly, if uke is attacking yokomenuchi with R-hand, nage extends L-hand and "draws in" the attack. For a moment, nages arms are crossed with L-hand down and R-hand horizontal sort of pointed towards uke.

However, I have seen some demonstrations of this technique where nage enters quickly to intercept the yokomenuchi with his L-hand more towards the apex of the attack, and switches to R-hand control (of uke's attacking R-hand) at this apex. With this method of response the whole arm-crossing event does not occur....but of course it could be that "juji" is a relec title that has lost any literal meaning for this technique.  

I found a good picture of what is clearly juji nage (at least as far as uke's arms forming the figure 10 in kanji is concerned). See 24.21.240.92/images_ experience/JujiNage.JPG

This is not, of course, a position found in taigi 13.2.

Cheers,

-Lauren

[Adam]

Interesting discussion guys. Thanks!

but of course it could be that "juji" is a relec title that has lost any literal meaning for this technique.

Well, as I practice it, my arms/hands most definately cross, and I practice it to have my leading hand at the "apex" as you described. The back hand crosses behind (closest to my body), finishing with both arms up, hands pointing to sky (that is, for the initial evasion). Timed right, there is no initial contact until both arms are brought down by nage to perform the meat of the throw.

thanks,
Adam

[Michael Holm]

I am not sure what you mean by Apex (the dictoinary in my Mac says something about the highest point...  )

Any I "perform" the technique like Adam describes (still not sure about the apex thing  )

Maybe I can take a picture of "my cross" in the technique tonight with my mobile

[Adam]

I am not sure what you mean by Apex (the dictoinary in my Mac says something about the highest point...  )

Yeah, that's why I put it in quotes. Apex didn't feel right to me either (but close). Another definition would be "The point of culmination." However, I guessed Lauren meant the moment of the attack where uke has committed to the strike – everything is in motion, and there's no turning back. Perhaps, "zenith"? Hmmm.

Help! We need a word-smith!

thanks,
Adam