Ki Breathing tips

[Adam]

I was asked once by a fellow dojo-mate, "how in the heck can you ever relax while doing ki-breathing?" I'm not 100% sure of her difficulties, but I can speculate based on my own experiences.

Usually, when ki breathing is demonstrated to the uninitiated, the breaths seem impossibly long. Suddenly, it seems, the whole point is to create a looonnnggg breath. Ironically, trying to breath longer will probably have the opposite effect. The focus should be on quality of breath and relaxation of mind/body.

I'm writing this because I've been getting over a late-season cold and last night, as I began ki breathing, I immediately felt "winded" or out of breath. A few breaths later, I nearly gave up, thinking that it's no use spending time doing something wrong. Then I thought, "why am I struggling? Why does this have to be so difficult?" So I decided to do a few breaths that were only a bit longer than you would expect from a deep sleep. Gee, that was easy! So I continued, not worrying about length, just the easy breathing of sleep. Well, I realized that about a half hour later, my breaths were comfortably around 20 seconds a piece. Sometimes it seemed, my breath would impossibly continue when I should be out of air! Ahhhh... relaxed breathing. There's nothing like it. Can't wait to do it again tonight.

thanks,
Adam

P.S.: If anyone else would like to share ki breathing tips or experiences, post 'em here!

[Barbara]

 ...the breaths seem impossibly long. Suddenly, it seems, the whole point is to create a looonnnggg breath. Ironically, trying to breath longer will probably have the opposite effect. The focus should be on quality of breath and relaxation of mind/body.

That matches exactly my experience with Ki-breathing.
The only person leading Ki-breathing who I usually can follow quite easily is Kashiwaya Sensei :-)
I counted, he does about 15 seconds between claps. That's just comfortable with me. Almost everyone else (except with a cold  ) extends it too long -far more than 20 seconds, right from the start- for me to follow, not to speak of staying relaxed. It looks to me like some kind of competition: the longer you breathe the better you are - while Kashiwaya Sensei really won't need to prove that.

Tohei Sensei requires that the teacher who leads Ki-breathing has to adjust to the students' rhythm. But if there's a group breathing, the teacher of course waits until everybody has exhaled. And since the ones with the longest breath usually are the loudest ....
What often makes me tense up as well, that's the awful sharp clack of the wooden blocks: makes me cringe. But who can change tradition. Surely not me.

To train Ki breathing, I practice it while driving to and from the dojo when going along a quiet and easy part of the route. Then I won't "watch" my breath and heartbeat so intently, what helps me to relax, and that benefits the driving too.

* * * *  Barbara

P.S. Adam, no offense, but this man-eating dog in association to ki-breathing won't contribute to relaxing either  

[Adam]

Maai wrote:

P.S. Adam, no offense, but this man-eating dog in association to ki-breathing won't contribute to relaxing either

No offense taken. My avatar image is cropped from an illustration I created some time ago. It's based on my great dane, Wendy. She's a gentle giant and loves kids... even when she picks them up by their heads.

For me, the image is very relaxing.

[Saint Louis Ki Society]

And relaxation is one of the main purposes for breathing exercises. 15 seconds is plenty long for most classes, though at World Camp they often go for 20 seconds. Kashiwaya Sensei said recently that 10 seconds breathing out on Shokyu Ki test is fine.

And most certainly, loud is not an indication of quality. Just means they can be loud. I have been amazed in the past how some people can even make breathing exercises competitive.

Ki Breathing is simply a way to train the mind, and teach the body to follow. I think it's an important daily practice, but not if you make a big deal out of it. I find it interesting to see how my mind and body respond to Ki breathing at different times, in different moods, places, etc.

Using the blocks to lead breathing is a great learning experience (and a humbling one if you listen carefully). Again, loud is not equal to good. Assuming you have good wooden blocks, the almost ring when struck together correctly.  

[RickB]

When I first started ki breathing, I was very unrelaxed.   After all, I was trying to get it just right; and trying to do it "just so."  It was pretty much the same experience as "trying" to go to sleep; ie., self-defeating.  It was also no use to be told to simply "let go."  I simply didn't know how.    Eventually, after several months of daily practice, I got to the point where the technique no longer felt foreign and I started getting more comfortable with it.  Only then, did I begin to relax while ki breathing.  While I do recommend educating new students (from the beginning) on the purpose(s) and benefits of ki-breathing, I would also reassure them that tension and stress brought about by the desire and struggle to "get it right" is ok at first.   They can have faith that they will bust through that after they get used to "doing it."   And before they do get comfortable with the techique, they can use whatever frustration or tension they experience as a wonderful opportunity  to focus their attention on the tension that is being created by the process.  Merely paying attention to what's happening itself changes what's happening (and brings about a degree of relaxation).  Yet, to suggest to new students that ki-breathing is  or should be] "relaxing" from the get-go, however, may not only be out of alignment with most people's experience, it often sets up people to quit out of frustration.   As Curtis Sensei repeatedly reminds us, unless we make this a part of our regular practice (preferably daily), it isn't going to be nearly as  rewarding as it could be.  It is the daily practice that creates the relaxation that is so readily available in ki breathing.
Ultimately, after almost 6 years of practice, ki-breathing has become for me a very powerful meditative experience.  It has replaced zazen as my major form of meditation (which I had practiced for almost 20 years before that).  I am now at the point with ki-breathing where I'm experimenting with the polarity between "what I am doing is just happening" and "what's just happening is something I'm doing."  To me that's what makes ki-breathing such a powerful form of meditation -- it is the quintessential vehicle for exploring the polarity between the voluntary and the involuntary.  The breath so transparently reveals this polarity (when you pay close attention to it), doesn't it?  Am I breathing or . . . ??    

[Adam]

Great posts everyone!

While I do recommend educating new students (from the beginning) on the purpose(s) and benefits of ki-breathing, I would also reassure them that tension and stress brought about by the desire and struggle to "get it right" is ok at first...

Yet, to suggest to new students that ki-breathing is  or should be "relaxing" from the get-go, however,...

Although I've assured new students of the same thing (this stuff takes practice), I'm shifting towards suggesting that it's okay if they "get it right" right away. It *is* possible to start from day one with "relaxing" ki breathing. Much like it's possible for students to "not fight" from day one. Then again, you need to train to see if you can sustain what you learned so quickly... and come to understand it. I believe I mastered the "20 year technique" 20 minutes after it was taught to me. However, I've been spending the last ten years trying to figure out how to repeat it.  

thanks,
Adam

[J. Nachtrab]

Interestingly enough, I never had any problems with Ki breathing from the first time I tried it.  I was able to maintain fairly long, steady breaths, always felt pretty relaxed, and it only took a couple of weeks before it felt pretty natural.  I thought about it and decided that it was all my years playing wind instruments - I already had the breath support and lung capacity to make Ki breathing easier.  I don't know if I was doing it completely correctly at first, but I didn't have any problems being relaxed.  After years spent playing the oboe (i.e., playing a 90 minute concert blowing through an opening of about 3 square millimeters), maintaining a 20 second in and out breath was cake.

At one point my oboe teacher back in college was toying with the idea of me teaching Ki breathing to the rest of the studio.  She thought the idea was fascinating, and that it really helped my musical skills.  

Sadly, now that I no longer play regularly I find Ki breathing more difficult at times.  It usually takes me 5-10 minutes before I fully relax.  I agree with Adam, though - once I forget about trying to maintain a pace and just breathe, it becomes much easier.

[RickB]

I agree with Adam that it is certainly possible to experience relaxation while ki-breathing for the first time.  And many probably do.  But I also think that for those that don't, there are more than a few possible explanations.  First, there may be "somesing wrong" with their technique, which is almost always the case anyway when we first start (and until we reach okuden probably ). But, it is also possible that the breathing is merely highlighting tension or stress that is already there.  In such circumstances, that itself becomes a great opportunity for meditative investigation and contemplation  (while breathing).  [In other words, just paying close attention to the total experience.]  And it is also possible that even if the new student is doing the technique fairly well and is not overly-stressed or tense in general, the newness and deliberate nature of the exercise may itself cause some degree of tension.  For example, riding a bike can become a very relaxing thing once you learn how (especially going downhill  ).  But while you're learning to ride, relaxation is probably not going to be the most noticeable part of your experience!  For students who report that experience, it may be helpful to reassure them that continual practice will help dissolve most of that kind of tension.  LIkewise, it may not be helpful to harp on the message that if you're not feeling complete relaxation, you're not doing it correctly.   While that may be true on a certain level of understanding, it may not be the best message to help new students instill confidence and facilitate the commitment to a daily practice.  In other words, trying too hard to do it "correctly" may often constitute an impediment to relaxing completely (doing it correctly).  That's not to say that we shouldn't stress the commitment to improve.  It's just to have faith that there is a certain natural "built-in" improvement that comes with the commitment to continue training.  Does this make any sense?

[roswell1329]

This is odd.  Most of the replies here talk about difficulties sustaining each breath, when my biggest problem is the tension in my lower extremeties.   After about 2-3 minutes, I feel like my legs are doing all they can to maintain seiza.  Each time I loosen up a little, I feel like I'm losing my good posture and that I'm settling too much on my heels.  I have tried letting my back take some of the load, but that feels awkward.  Do these feelings of being "unsettled" subside after becoming used to constantly being in seiza, and can anyone recommend some tips for dealing with it in the meantime?

[Adam]

Do these feelings of being "unsettled" subside after becoming used to constantly being in seiza, and can anyone recommend some tips for dealing with it in the meantime?

You don't have to sit seiza for ki breathing. I guess it depends on what you want to work on or if you're at home or the dojo. For home... buy or build a seiza bench, if you can't sit comfortably. For the dojo, I'm afraid I can't articulate any sound advice (as seiza applies to ki breathing) other than with practice, it'll get better.  :-/

Perhaps another thread can be started on tips and techniques for sitting seiza?

[kironin]

 

My personal favorite way of doing Ki breathing is when I am lying down across my bed.  

I also enjoy doing it sometimes when I am lying down on the couch.

gets me really relaxed.

Craig

[Pimado]

A ki breath should only last as long as you can do it relaxed.  You wont be able to breath as long with a cold or a headache or following cardiac by-pass surgery.  If you always do the best you can, you'll always be improving.

[Adam]

Me:

You don't have to sit seiza for ki breathing.

Craig:

I also enjoy doing it sometimes when I am lying down on the couch.

Mort:

If you always do the best you can, you'll always be improving.

I was reading a thread on cold water training (not specifically misogi) on aikiweb, and was reminded of the benefits of a cold shower. So, I finished my shower this morning with a cold-water rinse. Some neat stuff happens to your breathing if you care to pay attention to it.

[Barbara]

I was reading a thread on cold water training (not specifically misogi) on aikiweb, and was reminded of the benefits of a cold shower. So, I finished my shower this morning with a cold-water rinse.

That's what I was told to do anyway always, esp. in winter. It strengthens your immune defense by training your pores to close and keep body temperature. - And it wakes me up ;-)

* * * *  Barbara

P.S. Thanks for the aikiweb-link, Adam. Great info!

[kironin]

 

Well my extended period of cold water training is over.  
I finally hooked up a new water heater.