The purpose of your training?

[RickB]

My teacher has often expressed his view that "enlightenment" is not something that you don't have and then "get" and then "have" thereafter.    I believe that he views enlightenment more as a "way of being" from moment-to-moment.  Yet, some teachers (and students) claim to have experienced satori (enlightenment) in meditation (or other training) wherein they come to the startling realization that "all is one" and that they are "one with the universe" -- and life is then instantly transformed forevermore.  This is experienced not just cognitively or conceptually but experientially and holistically.  In other words, this oneness is felt as more than just a mere intellectual understanding; it is felt at the very core of one's being.    Have those of you who claim to have had "the enlightenment experience" then stopped your training (or meditating)?  If not, why not??  What more is then to be "achieved"?

Tohei Sensei has written a variety of  "ki-sayings" or "shokushu" (pearls of wisdom).  One of them states that the ultimate purpose of our study is "to unify mind and body and become one with the universe."  Yet, are we not already one with the universe and are not the mind and body always originally one?     So, what then do you suppose he means by the term "to become one with the universe"?  Posed a tad differently, my question is this:  do you train to become more, better, or different than you already are?  Are you sometimes one with the universe and other times not?  Sometimes conscious of it and other times not?  Or, if you feel that you are already and always one with the universe, then why do you continue training . . . or meditating?  Are you training your mind and body to become . . .  what it already is?  Or something else?

Of course, I have a viewpoint on all of this which has evolved and continues to do so.    Ironically to be sure, part of my view is that any discussion on this point is simply "the finger pointing at the moon," and certainly not the moon itself.  In the same way, some have complained about this very forum as "mistaking the map for the territory."   Nevertheless, the forum is here, so I thought I'd use it to see if anything intelligent or useful can be said about this ineffable subject.    I would, however, implore you to not just disgorge some philosophy or spiritual dogma that you agree with abstractly.  I am asking you -- personally -- in the context of this being-becoming dichotomy:   why do you train?  

[Adam]

why do you train?  

I was at first going to say, "for the chicks"  . But since I'm married, I'm going to have to work on a more "intelligent" response. For now, all I can think of is, I train so that I can train (or something like that).

I'll have to ponder this and get back to you.

[RickB]

Either no one knows why they are training   :-/  or they don't care to say.      Or perhaps no one feels they have a "non-dogmatic" answer?    Interesting.

Of course, Adam's answer -- "I train so that I can train" -- may be the best answer possible.  Of course, "for the chicks" . . . never mind . . .

[Pimado]

Adam said  "for the chicks".  

That's the reason I train too.

By the way, where did we meet our wives?

Other than that I enjoy pointing at the moon.

[CTurner]

I started training in Ki Aikido over thirty years ago, mainly because I saw a way to help develop mental/physical training with performers. I'm a movement specialist in actor training and I've always been on the lookout for methods that could be adapted to western actor training/theatre. The approach that Ki Society uses was instantly useful to me and my own teaching.
Of course, in order to teach it to others I've been working on myself!
The combination of intention/image/physical completion/relaxation/blending that Ki Society emphasizes (over "how hard can I throw you down" that I often saw in some other styles) was an instant hit with my students and has remained so over the years in various training programs.
Hope this helps.

[Adam]

By the way, where did we meet our wives?

Either no one knows why they are training, or they don't care to say.  Or perhaps no one feels they have a "non-dogmatic" answer? Interesting.

There's been 4 replies (now 5!) to this thread already. On this forum, that's monumental! There's an interesting thread going on at aikiweb.com that has some relevance here.

In any case, I'm not sure how much I can add. Training is great. Learning how to train is what I find myself doing most of the time. Enlightenment isn't my goal. I'm just trying to keep it simple. Raising my kids as well as I know how, will probably reveal more about myself than aikido ever will.

To "CTurner" (if that *is* your real name   ) ... welcome to the forums.

thanks,
Adam

[KiSensei]

I'll add my two cents and make it six replies...

I started training way back in the day, simply because I found it interesting.  I thought, what is the best way to improve my mental prowess and my physical abilities, the answer I came to was practicing true martial arts.  I found early on that training to reach a point is what people do when they miss the objective of martial arts.  I found that the journey is indeed more beautiful, more worth-while, and more important than the destination ever could be...

I feel that I have reached some amazing levels of enlightenment, and even though relatively today my life is radically more enlightened, I still find that there is equal room to learn and grow.  It's funny, but I find the more we seek to accomplish, the more that we find we need to get done.  I now train different styles, some internal, some external, and to this day I still carry with me the idea of living to train, not training to live.  I try to pass these ideas onto my students, but I find that to grasp ideas like those that are present in this thread, one needs to stumble upon them on their own.

,Ki Sensei

[Lian]

I wanna try! I wanna try  :D!

Weeelll, really i don't know :o i'm a boy who likes to train, well uhh, overall

but when i train, i feel somewhat happy, and this makes me want to train  ;D

Don't know, it's like a feeling of quiet joy! and peace, huuu,. yeah this! peace :D

well after i'm a lot hungry, but thats the only thing, and it gives me the feeling that i do not need anything more of, uhh, something to eat, my family, and strictly those things i need to live on :o

but expecially something to eat  :)
is this a stoopid answer?? ??? :o

[RickB]

I started this topic but never finished it.  There is an old Zen saying that translates loosely into something like:  "awakening is always an un-caused accident."  I find that the more intensely I train (up to a point), the more "accident prone" I become (in the Zen sense).    On the other hand, when I start "grasping" for profundity (in the training), I never see any.  It's sort of like trying to grasp water with your hand as it flows by.  The best way to experience it is to just "let it flow" . . . with awareness in the moment.  Still:  "to unify mind and body and become one with the universe is the ultimate purpose of my study..."

[daytonford]

I'll add my two cents.

I started training after I had done some reading on aikido and ki. As a college professor I always tell my students that you should never stop learning. Once you do, you really have nothing else to look forward to So I began Ki-Aikido with the intention of learning and improving my knowledge of myself (re: mind-body coordination) and the art of Ki-Aikido (because I see it as a Martial ART).

I continue to train for the "A-Ha" moments. You know those moments when you finally believe that you understand something. I love that feeling.

Ki-Aikido is also quite humbling in that I will have one of those "A-Ha" moments one week and then completely screw up the technique a week later  So I continue to train in order to benefit from those feelings of achievement that I get periodically along with the understanding that I gain about my own body in the process. I have also found that it is a great way to relax and be with myself for a while without worldly distractions... the zen "Now".

Besides, I believe that in order to be a good teacher, you must also be a student of something periodically or else one risks losing proper perspective 

Thus I guess that I also "train to train" 

D. Ford

[ech33]

to become a better person, who r able to protect self/family and the community.

[RandyC]

Why do I train?  To get out of the house of course!!!!

To better myself, in a whole host of ways.  Sure I'd love to be able to say just once that "There, just then I truly was the center of the universe!"  But I don't really expect that for a while.  After all, I've only reached the rank of Shodan 

Every time I go to a class I always expect to learn something.  Sure, as Shodan I have experienced most if not all the range of available Aikido tachniques, and can (with some fumbling and thinking), produce them on demand.  But there's so much more to it than that!  There's always some nuance, some improvement I'm shown (not necessarily getting it mind you).

But mostly I train because it's still fun!  And I hope it will continue to be fun.

Randy

[tessia]

I think it's cute that when I went to post this little warning told me: "this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days. Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."

Anyways, I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I'm not sure I have a definite answer as to why I train but I'll give it a shot. The best relative concept is that I train for continuous growth. Why aikido instead of some other method? Many reasons, including the philosophy of aikido, the people, and the relationship I find so beautifully interwoven between the expression and movement of the mind/body in relation to the universe.

[ki-fool]

This conversation actually came up in class a few weeks ago and I said; "Why not?"

I read through all of the replies and I agree with them, but I could not think of a single response to enter into this thread except "Why not?".

Is there any reason why you should not learn anything if the opportunity presents itself? Will it make you less of a person? Destroy your creativity?

That is why I always wonder about people who start and never come back.  Could they just not find their motivation to keep going? Or did they have an answer as to why not?  If they had found an answer as to why not, I wish they would share what would keep someone from learning because even learning something wrong at least encourages someone to think and consider things they had previously not known and grow in some form.

So in essence I can give you hundreds of reasons as to why I train, but can anyone give me a single reason as to why I shouldn't?

[fallen angel]

 Ithink I have once and quite frankly scared the crapout me